FatFreek 2005

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Posts by FatFreek 2005

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  102

  Finished Mystery (1917)... The book that Jesus approved...

  by Alfred in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  so a few months ago, a friend sent me an actual copy of finished mystery which was published in 1917 (not a pdf download... the actual book).

  i must say, this was the most disturbing book i have ever had the displeasure of reading.

  but i only read it because this was the main publication that was being distributed worldwide when jesus supposedly chose the watchtower in 1918 and i basically wanted to see for myself what jesus saw in the wt that would compel him to choose this religious corporation over all other religious denominations.. anyway, if anyone is interested in knowing the actual contents of this book, here are some bullet points i put together from some of the notes i took as i read the book:.

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  FatFreek 2005

  Alfred, this is a great piece of work -- that research you did some 6 years ago. Time to resurrect it especially in view of the recently dropped Watchtower teaching of 1919.

  Len
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  11

  Are there stats for this site?

  by ILoveTTATT2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  wondering if simon or anyone else have statistics for this site?i.e.

  how many users are there?

  how many posts have ever been made?perhaps a graph showing how many users there were at a given time?

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  FatFreek 2005

  I've been a member here since 2005 and at that time I was able to ascertain that there were more than 50,000 members of this forum. That, of course, doesn't mean they were all active. Many, I'm sure, were only "one and done" members.

  Only Simon, however, could give you some type of number with any kind of validity.
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  17

  Has 1919 been abandoned? Is the sky falling?

  by FatFreek 2005 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i copied the following two items from jw dot orgs site entitled “dates of prophetic significance” at site below:.

  http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200271564.

  once held to be year when ‘true lord and messenger of the covenant’ came to spiritual temple (mal 3:1): w10 3/15 23; w07 4/1 22; w07 12/15 27-28; jd 179-182; re 31-32, 55-56; w92 12/1 13; w89 4/15 7; w89 7/1 30; w87 6/15 14-15. .

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  FatFreek 2005

  See the original post (and jw.org source page) on this one. On that same page adjacent to the 1919 date are the following 30 additional item that happen on that date. Are we supposed to abandon these as well?

  1919,

  1. 144,000 begin “singing as if a new song” (Re 14:3): re 200

  2. antitypical Festival of Booths resumes: w96 7/1 24

  3. Babylon the Great falls (Re 14:8; 18:2): re 205-206, 209, 259-261; w89 5/1 3-5; w88 12/15 20-21

  4. birth of new nation (Isa 66:8): w14 11/15 26; re 183-184; ip-2 397-400; w94 1/15 14

  5. ‘disgusting thing placed’ (Da 12:11): dp 300; w93 11/1 10-11

  6. dry bones come to life (Eze 37): w16.03 30-31

  7. “faithful and discreet slave” ‘appointed over master’s domestics’ (Mt 24:45): kr 23-24; w13 7/15 21-22; w13 12/15 16

  8. ‘fire hurled to earth’ (Re 8:5): w09 1/15 32; re 131-132

  9. flight to “valley of my mountains” begins (Zec 14:5): w13 2/15 19-20

  10. ‘four angels untied’ (Re 9:15): re 149-151; w88 12/15 13

  11. harvest actually begins (Mt 13; Re 14): kr 88-89; re 211-212

  12. Jehovah’s chariotlike heavenly organization gets in touch with Ezekiel class (Eze 1): w91 3/15 11

  13. Jehovah’s spirit begins to be poured out on remnant (Joe 2:28, 29): w98 5/1 14-15

  14. “key of the house of David” placed on shoulder of remnant (Isa 22:22): w09 1/15 31

  15. locusts swarm from abyss (Re 9): re 143-148; w89 4/1 17-18; w88 12/15 12-13

  16. once held to be year “faithful and discreet slave” ‘appointed over master’s belongings’ (Mt 24:47): w04 3/1 12; wt 131

  17. once held to be year faithful slaves ‘appointed over many things’ (Mt 25:21, 23): w15 3/15 24; w04 3/1 17

  18. once held to be year virgins hear cry, “Here is the bridegroom!” (Mt 25:6): w15 3/15 14; w04 3/1 14

  19. “opened door” set before remnant (Re 3:8): re 60-65

  20. remnant “come quivering to Jehovah” (Hos 3:5): w91 8/15 17

  21. remnant eat “little scroll” (Re 10:8-11): re 159-160

  22. remnant figuratively resurrected: dp 290-291; w88 10/15 13; w87 7/1 21-23

  23. remnant freed from Babylon the Great: w16.11 30; ip-2 74; ip-1 400-401; w89 5/1 4-5

  24. remnant ‘hold possession of land’ (Isa 60:21): w02 7/1 18; ip-2 319-320

  25. remnant refined (Isa 1:24-27): ip-1 32-34

  26. remnant restored to spiritual paradise: ip-1 380; w91 5/15 16

  27. remnant step before “waters” of mankind (Jos 3:15-17): w86 12/15 13

  28. two witnesses resurrected (Re 11:11, 12): w14 11/15 30; re 169-170

  29. “Way of Holiness” opened (Isa 35:8): ip-1 380-381; ws 132-134

  30. “your God has become king” begins to be declared (Isa 52:7): ip-2 187
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  23

  1919 What???

  by NikL in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i had seen it before but never actually looked.. sure enough in july 15 2013 wt .... 17 in the past, we have stated in our publications that these last four references apply to jesus’ arriving, or coming, in 1918. as an example, take jesus’ statement about “the faithful and discreet slave.” (read matthew 24:45-47.

  ) we understood that the “arriving” mentioned in verse 46 was linked to the time when jesus came to inspect the spiritual condition of the anointed in 1918 and that the appointment of the slave over all the master’s belongings occurred in 1919.

  (mal.

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  FatFreek 2005

  Ya'll just busted my bubble!
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  17

  Has 1919 been abandoned? Is the sky falling?

  by FatFreek 2005 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i copied the following two items from jw dot orgs site entitled “dates of prophetic significance” at site below:.

  http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200271564.

  once held to be year when ‘true lord and messenger of the covenant’ came to spiritual temple (mal 3:1): w10 3/15 23; w07 4/1 22; w07 12/15 27-28; jd 179-182; re 31-32, 55-56; w92 12/1 13; w89 4/15 7; w89 7/1 30; w87 6/15 14-15. .

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  FatFreek 2005

  I just did a search for "1919" in my Watchtower Lib and it returned 2425 instances. That is, in all publications since 1950, the Watchtower repeatedly told us how important that date is (or was).

  To me, that doesn't say a lot about their credibility -- or does it?

  Please, Watchtower, don't abandon 1914 just yet. We need more time to digest this wonderful food at the proper time.

  Len
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  17

  Has 1919 been abandoned? Is the sky falling?

  by FatFreek 2005 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i copied the following two items from jw dot orgs site entitled “dates of prophetic significance” at site below:.

  http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200271564.

  once held to be year when ‘true lord and messenger of the covenant’ came to spiritual temple (mal 3:1): w10 3/15 23; w07 4/1 22; w07 12/15 27-28; jd 179-182; re 31-32, 55-56; w92 12/1 13; w89 4/15 7; w89 7/1 30; w87 6/15 14-15. .

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  FatFreek 2005

  I copied the following two items from JW dot ORGs site entitled “DATES OF PROPHETIC SIGNIFICANCE” at site below:

  http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200271564

  1. once held to be year when ‘true Lord and messenger of the covenant’ came to spiritual temple (Mal 3:1): w10 3/15 23; w07 4/1 22; w07 12/15 27-28; jd 179-182; re 31-32, 55-56; w92 12/1 13; w89 4/15 7; w89 7/1 30; w87 6/15 14-15

  2. 1918-1919, once held to be period of anointed’s captivity to Babylon the Great: w16.11 22-23, 27-29

  Number 1 doesn’t give a date but references publications back to 1987. It seems these pubs give 1918 as the “once held” year. Number 2 is explicit, that 1918-1919 have been abandoned.

  My question: If they abandoned 1918 and 1919 (once held) have they replaced them with other dates or are they going to leave us in limbo?

  I mean – What are we going to do without knowing?

  Len
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  11

  The 31 date blunders of Watchtower

  by FatFreek 2005 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  dates (ad) of events once taught by watchtower as significant but no longer supported since nothing happened.. .

  "but bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble.

  zion's watch tower 1894 jul 15 p.226 incredibly, today’s jw’s dishonestly prefer to rewrite history, claiming "jehovah's witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance, as marking the start of "the conclusion of the system of things.

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  FatFreek 2005

  Thanks, Splash and berrygerry. By merging these all and purging the dupes I hope to come up with an exhaustive and up-to-date list of my own -- to share, of course.

  Len
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  11

  The 31 date blunders of Watchtower

  by FatFreek 2005 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  dates (ad) of events once taught by watchtower as significant but no longer supported since nothing happened.. .

  "but bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble.

  zion's watch tower 1894 jul 15 p.226 incredibly, today’s jw’s dishonestly prefer to rewrite history, claiming "jehovah's witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance, as marking the start of "the conclusion of the system of things.

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  FatFreek 2005

  Hmmmm ... Paul doesn't seem to mention that one. Can you source that?

  Interestingly, he does bring up 1931 but in another prediction,

  "A noteworthy example is the date for the sealing of the 144,000, a date constantly changed. Russell originally set it as being 1878. This was moved to 1881, 1910, 1914, 1925, 1931 and finally 1935. In 2007 it has admitted as unknown.
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  11

  The 31 date blunders of Watchtower

  by FatFreek 2005 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  dates (ad) of events once taught by watchtower as significant but no longer supported since nothing happened.. .

  "but bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble.

  zion's watch tower 1894 jul 15 p.226 incredibly, today’s jw’s dishonestly prefer to rewrite history, claiming "jehovah's witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance, as marking the start of "the conclusion of the system of things.

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  FatFreek 2005

  Dates (AD) of events once taught by Watchtower as significant but no longer supported since nothing happened.
  539 1780 1798 1799 1829 1840 1844 1846	1872 1874 1878 1880 1881 1891 1906 1910	19141 1915 1917 1918 1920 1921 1925 1926	1928 1932 1935 1940’s2 1951 19753 20004

  1. "But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble. Zion's Watch Tower 1894 Jul 15 p.226 Incredibly, today’s JW’s dishonestly prefer to rewrite history, claiming "Jehovah's witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance, as marking the start of "the conclusion of the system of things." Awake! 1973 Jan 22 p.8

  2. Most JW’s felt that this decade would be the final one based on Rutherford’s strong words, " . . . remaining months before Armageddon." Watchtower 1941 Sep 15 p.288

  3. Perhaps Watchtower’s most egregious date teaching known, the only one I know of where Watchtower actually apologized for its 9 year hype that implied Armageddon would be history by the time that 1975 rolled around, " . . . It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years." Watchtower 1968 Aug 15 p.499

  4. "Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom." The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah p. 216
  

  For those who like to count, there are 31 dates on this list. For those who like to find significance in numbers you won’t find it here. Yes, Baskin Robbins has advertised its 31 flavors of ice cream for many years but they would be insulted, and properly so, if someone linked them to Watchtower’s history of false teaching.

  The only significance in the above number is that Watchtower has been guilty of teaching the wrong things far too many times. That doesn’t mean that those exposing such blunders can’t capitalize on keeping a good count of the blunders.

  Therefore, “The 31 date blunders of Watchtower”, is the title of this post.

  Thanks to Paul over at JWFACTS.COM for a well documented expose' of these dates. Check him out at http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/1800s.php

  Len Miller
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  14

  Name one Watchtower date that they got correct

  by FatFreek 2005 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it was the year 2011. remember that one?

  surprise, surprise -- it wasn't one of their predictions.

  it was from one of their competitors, harold camping.. "religious leaders sometimes predict tragic worldwide events to warn mankind and gather followers.

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  FatFreek 2005

  It was the year 2011. Remember that one?

  Surprise, Surprise -- it wasn't one of their predictions. It was from one of their competitors, Harold Camping.

  "RELIGIOUS LEADERS sometimes predict tragic worldwide events to warn mankind and gather followers. Doomsday prophet Harold Camping and his disciples widely advertised that the earth would be destroyed in 2011. Needless to say, the world is still here." Watchtower 2014 May 1 p.3

  I find it interesting that they called Camping a "Doomsday prophet".

  Do you suppose they look at themselves as doomsday prophets? I mean, when you consider that their failure record is far more egregious than Campings, it makes you wonder.

  Len